So, which one of your parents do you love? That's right-- which one?
Ok, silly question; let's try again.
Which one of your children do you love? Which one of your siblings? Which one of your spouses? Which grandpa--
Whah? Whaddya mean, "Hold on!"?
Why? Why is the demographic of spouses different? Where do the rules of love say that it is possible to love more than one child, more than one parent, more than one of every other type of human socio-relationship conceivable, but only one other partner when it comes to that aspect of our being? Where? Why?
I used to have major jealousy issues. I won't bore you with long, drawn-out details, but 'round about eight years ago I was offered major philosophical-changing epiphany about that four-letter word, LOVE. It's only limited by jealousy and societal conditioning.
There are enough words in the Universe for us to share our thoughts, fears, feelings, dreams and emotions with each other. Even though words are a finite source, their intent is not... even if we use the same words twice, we don't lose potency of meaning. They're renewable sources... still as effective at communicating their second say-- maybe even more so, with trust being built as the words become manifest action.
The same is simply not true of the raw feeling or emotion or state of love; it's merely seeking expressive, succinct communication via codification . I mean, do the words EVER fully express the depth of an honest "I Love You"? No way, dude. Not even close.
Nope; the limitation ends with the words. Or more accurately, seems, begins with them.
[The State of] Love? INFINITE.
I sincerely would LOVE feedback on this issue from the Pagan community. Link away, steal the idea and forum about it on your blog... whatever. I stand solid in love with three (non-family) individuals currently incarnate, so my opinion likely won't sway, but I want to hear from you-- agree, disagree, or waver...
Health and farewell!
Cygnus
Want More?
Polyamory In The News
Practical Polyamory
Post-scriptum: I speak of love as a State. My personal belief is a that our Soul already exist is States of love with Others. We "fall" neither "in" nor "out" of love. We're already there, and luck or fate to stumble upon our Others. There's an automatic Knowing when you meet (or at last Recognize-- oft the timing is not synchronous!) the Other(s). But that's fodder for another day...
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23 comments:
I've worked at two poly relationships in the past. And the only thing I learned with any certainty is that, for me anyway, it is best not to get involved with a couple/group who already have an established relationship. Because whether consciously or unconsciously they will have preconceived notions of what the new person should/should not be and when I prove myself to be a unique, unpredictable individual, instead of the desired filler for their gaps, things will not end well.
For that reason I've decided that if I ever get involved in a poly relationship again it will be a fresh start for all of us with none of us ever having been more than friends. That way we can all build something new together instead of me being made to feel like a failure because my square peg wouldn't fit into a round hole.
As you can tell, I've got a little bitterness in me regarding polyamory. But I still think it can be a beautiful thing for some people, maybe for me again someday. But my past poly relationships were only pleasant for a very short time then quickly became hellishly painful. So, if I ever go that route again I will be EXTREMELY cautious as I don't feel the need to spend half a decade getting over that horrible kind of pain again. Everyone knows that when a two-person relationship ends it hurts like hell. But when there are multiple loved ones suddenly rejecting you, and placing all the blame on you, it's a pain like no other.
Very interesting perspectives, Liv. Thank you for being willing to share the experience here.
I can see where someone coming in to an already-existing relationship would face expectancy issues.
Be nice to glom upon a situation wherein everyone was fresh and new, but seems kinda it would be a definite minority of circumstantial go-downs...
Powerful closing thought there, Lady.
Thank you SO MUCH for the Manna for mental fodder, Livia... and here's to NO ONE ever having to suffer that fate. (Sh)it'll happen but ... I symathize. Broken hearts DO SUCK major Moose Cock...
I have never dated two people at the same time but I've read a number of different commune accounts where "sharing" lovers took place and repeatedly those experimental groups (emphasizing 'free love') always ended up breaking up over SOMEBODY getting jealous, enraged, argumentative, competitive, etc. Just take a look at the many deity inside the Pagan pantheons and you can see that having multiple partners always ends in chaos, jealousy or disaster.
For me, personally, monogamy has nothing to do with social morals or jealousy but has everything to do with what I personally need and want from my romantic life. I have no incentive to judge what other people do with their bodies, sexually, but I do expect my own marriage partner to end our relationship if and when he ever feels the desire to bed another woman. This agreement is very important to me and I am willing to walk away if he or I ever break the vow of monogamy we both took.
This is, after all, my own personal code of ethics. You know, from reading my blog, I'm not really swayed by social expectations or the opinions of others.
I am who I am. That is all.
No expeience with polyamory without it being cheating on my part (yes, I've just been honest) but on the subject of Reconigizing the Others, I must agree. I've met -- and immediately known -- a number of people. My own son is one -- I've known him forever, knew him the moment he was born, have known him before and will know him again. The Boy is 24 now and he is exactly who I thought he was. Weird, but it was an experience I will never forget, looking at him and wondering "where have you been?"
Nice subject. This will probably stick in my head for a bit...
Pearl
SunTiger-- good point about the Pantheon...
I must admit to never being in a (mutually agreed upon-- like Pearl said in the following comment; yes, I was just honest.:P) Poly relationship, and I think it would take really the right people for it to really work for me.
I do know that the love I feel for the two women and one male (and for the record, I am NOT bi or gay. I have no trouble with those orientations, I'm just genetically geared to double-take on sexy women...)is not diminished by any or all of them having other loves, relationships, etc.. THIS I can state from experience.
I also believe this is a VERY PERSONAL ISSUE, and completely understand and value your ethics.
It took some serious Questioning and Exploration before I began to... ponder the poly idea as feasible for Cygnus.
Here's to the gods granting me the opportunity to practice En Trio...
[Hell, right now I don't even have ONE lady friend physically attinable! What the heck am I doing writing about this?
Ah.. Assigned. Muse (no, not you, Incarnate one! hee!)Alas...]
Thanks for the great input, Lady SunTiger!
Pearl...
A VERY pleasant surprise to see your cutie-fied face here! Had I been a bit more aware, I should have sensed...something...
N.E who-- yes, the recognition thing always takes me by surprise. Generally after I've been 'spotted' and shaken about a bit-- seems they always find me first (maybe too self-absorbed, me, to tune in, er, out... NOW i'm confused!).
Glad I could proffer some grey matter stimuli...
Have a great day, Lady!
And Thank You so much for both commenting and putting your picture over here (following)!
Hope you enjoy it !
I absolutely agree that we are connected to some people that we have never met before.
I just know...my hair stands on end and I feel it in the pit of my soul.
I think to myself...Oh...I already know we're friends/lovers/etc.
That voice has never been wrong.
:)
Happy day to you my friend.
WOW! Two Sweet Cheeks [visits. Sites varied.] in One Night!
"Swan Wins Lottery", I see tomorrow's headlines running...
Thanks! And Welcome to my humble opines.
That Knowing... really is SOMETHING, isn't it? Wonder why I'm always the 'last' to ... ? :D
Too many tangent ideas running off this One...
Good future post-fodder!:D
Have a great night, Sweet Cheeks!
Good conversation you stared here. I think maintaining a trusting relationship with ONE sexual partner is difficult enough and would not have the emotional stamina to try to keep up with two or more. :D
Touche, Tigress...
Hell, GETTING just ONE seems too difficult for this ol' bird... ha!
Hey Cygnus...
I just read that poem 'ONE'...
I loved it!
Not kidding.
Have a nice night Sweetie!
:)
Ah, the recognition of 'Others'...yes, I know it well. Like Pearl, my youngest son is one I've known before and will know again. I can't tell you from when or where, but I know...ya know?
As to the love/relationship stuff, well...Cyg, I am one of those emotionally detached unless it is a REALLY deep connection kinda people. Would be scary for most folks I guess, but I know that's how I am and live with it. You know from over at 'my place' the goin' ons around here and you know the place I'm in. I love him, but I don't...not enough to throw everything to him...I've had that connection once before in my life and unfortunately it is not with him.
I believe, or want to believe, that there are people 'out there' other than my son that I can feel that kind of connection with (btw, let's not get into the guilt that I feel over not having the same connection with the oldest son). I have to believe that there are more out there to feel something with...so few species on this planet mate for life and those few usually perish with they lose their mate...I cannot fathom doing the same, so I know that there is more.
Okay, rambly tired communication over, lol. I've spent entirely too much time procrastinating tonight.
Oh, I meant to add:
It's not only the spouse that I have that cool detachment with. It includes my parents, my siblings and sadly all of my real life friends except two. Those two are close, dear friends that would do just about anything for me and the feeling is mutual...one I've known since childhood, the other only a few years. It isn't romantic love but a sisterly love that I don't feel fully with my own flesh and blood sister. It was a knowing with them as well.
Now if only I could find that 'other half' that has eluded me since I lost the first 'other half'. sigh
Ozark Momma-- I hear you, Lady...
I feel really fortunate to count FIVE true friends over my 42 years...
part of my misanthropic lean is that detachment...
That one that got away... Yes.
I got one of those, too... Might, in fact, get to see her the Independence day week, but... we are Loves, and yet on and off (besides the distance thing-- she lives in Reno, Nv, currently). Maybe the love too intense for the people this go-round. And the timing-- meet her THREE WEEKS before my 12-year ward-of-the-state foray.
Lucky she's still there.
I'm still looking, or waiting or hoping or... for the other Other, too.
Gotta hope, else, NOTHING.
Hey, thanks a million for the comments, Woman. I'll send a good vibes or three your way (in fact, have all day... ::smiles::)
'See' ya again soon!
First of all I have to say that I have a huge problem with polyamory as a whole! I think it's a cop out for whomever seeks out this kind of "relationship" and I use that term very loosely because I do not believe that the term relationship applies to polyamory!
I think that loving someone (in the romantic sense) is such a strong, real, beautiful, and honest emotion that its impossible for it to be distributed equally to more than one person...that's ridiculous! On the off chance that all parties in a polyamorous relationship get along dream fully well and are completely committed to making a poly relationship work its inevitable that someone at some time is going to feel left out, not loved as much as another partner, have jealous feelings. Its the same premise as cheating and who the hell wants to be cheated on? I just have a huge problem believing that any woman (and yes I said woman because its just like a man to think this is alright) wouldn't want a monogamous relationship with the man she loves!
A very heartfelt thank you, Misad Mommy, for taking me up on this viewing offer!!!
You raise some valid points, Lady, and I want to give mind to them before retort...I know what IS (for me0, and so what I will respond on a point or three, but I'd be neglecting my Duty if I didn't mull it all as well-- question even MY "SET" beliefs.
Exactly why I chose such a sticky issue!
Thank you so very much for the visit and for being stimulated enough to comment.
More on this SOON, Cyggie promises!
Misadventurous Mommy: "I think it's a cop out for whomever seeks out this kind of "relationship" "
What do you mean by this? How is entering an open, honest, consensual romantic and sexual relationship with more than one person a cop out? I'm honestly asking as I don't understand your meaning.
Cgynus, I've been thinking about this ever since I first posted. And I'm soooo glad you brought up this subject and allowed me to tell my sob story. It was great therapy. Just writing about those past relationships brought me a lot of clarity and make me recognize things I hadn't thought of in a long while, or ever! Again, great therapy!
Livia, I thank you for such great feedback here. And to be able to "tell [your] sob story'...
One Word, Lady: CATHARSIS.
Very Humbly grateful if I've contributed to any part thereof...
You take care, Lady Liv... I Love your pictures [Sacred Sprial],BTW!!!
Slainte!
Livia what I wrote was not meant to offend anyone and I'm kinda sorry that you took it that way, I say kind of because its my opinion and I'm entitled to it!
Now maybe cop out wasn't the right word, no actually I know that it was not... the word I should have used was bullshit...I think it's bullshit for whomever seeks out that kind of relationship!!! There are several reasons why I think it's bullshit. 1. Love is a sacred thing and I think that people who believe that they are in a healthy loving relationship with multiple partners are just kidding themselves. 2. I think anyone who would engage in that kind of behavior is selfish. 3. Anyone in a relationship with more than one person clearly has not thought about the fact that the other person is cheating on you over and over and over again right in front of your face and you're just like, "Yes sir that's love!" No it's BULLSHIT!
You know that's why people have threesomes when they're in their 20's so that they get that shit out of their systems!
I had my one and only threesome at age 41. One she and two he. Straight.
And purely sexual-- no love involved.
Thanks for your understanding Cygnus.
Misadventurous Mommy, yes, you are entitle to your own opinion of course. Just as I am to mine. And I personally think calling someone else and their relationship choices 'bullshit' is in itself bullshit.
Livia-- I've come to know you over the last few months via our readership sharing and commentary exchange.
I am honored that my little writ here helped you deal with and heal some of your past.
I think if we all examine, as you just did, our relationship choices, we'd find more need to see the other fingers pointing back our way, not the one we are trying to emphasize to the world...
I'm thankful I'm walking a path that virtually DEMANDS we look at and question our preconceived notions... many will never be so fortunate. Yes, there is sorrow-- but so much more growth for facing it HONESTLY.
Thank YOU, Liv. Lady...
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